JCKGH -- Jewish Center of Kew Gardens Hills

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Permalink Reply by Patricia Weppler on August 26, 2008 at 11:46pm

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What a shame about the scrolls being stolen!

I have heard the same about the catholic church I attended while living in Flushing - Queen of Peace. (Attendance is down, the parish is mostly older people, etc.)

I agree with you about White Castle! That is always a highlight of any trip I make to the city.

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Permalink Reply by Howard Goldman on August 27, 2008 at 8:44am

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Mr. Perlmutter.

I echo your sentiments; many places from our youth have fallen by the wayside akin to the once famous Route 66. When I visited 164 this past May, I had the opportunity to drive along Main Street and while the scenery was faintly familiar, the vast majority of sights from our glorious past are sadly, gone. FYI, next time business takes you to New York, take the short trip to Manhattan and experience the best NYC burger: JG Melons on Third Avenue and 75th.
~Howard

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Permalink Reply by Mitch Pilcer on August 28, 2008 at 7:24am

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My folks are still members of the congregation at the Jewish Center and I joined them there for Shabbat a month ago, and it was as you described, quite sad. The huge building is the same as it was but is becoming a tomb as its last members die away. And especially strange is the contrast with the streets outside that are full of Jews of the Orthodox persuasion on their way to one of the dozens of small and large shuls that are now a significant feature in the neighborhood. One can't help but make the observation that the Conservative movement was a passing phenomenom and totally failed to pass it's values onto their children who in most cases, became completely unobservant Jews. The Orthodox, with their tradional values and large families are set to inherit the building in a few years and then it will return to life with packed minyans morning and night, and a Yeshiva in the basement where they have a dance school operating today. I couldn't help while I was sitting there at the services to do some architectural planning and figure out where they would build the ezrat nashim (there's plenty of room).

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Permalink Reply by Ruben G. Perlmutter on August 28, 2008 at 2:06pm

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Mitch: If you remember, the side walls of the main sanctuary open up (they always did for the High Holidays); that's the space that will likely be reserved for women.

I'm not as pessimistic about the Conservative movement, although I think it will certainly shrink. Conservative synagogue afternoon/Sunday schools are a large part of the problem; as you said, they tend to produce largely unobservant adults -- certainly, JCKGH's school did (where I learned how to speed read the Siddur, but not understand it). I've become (unexpectedly so) a big proponent of Conservative Jewish Day Schools, where I send my kids. The problem has become costs and lack of parental commitment. Our Schechter in Dallas has shrunk from 525 students in pre-school through 8th grade to about 400 over the last 6 years. One problem was the dot com bust; as people's wealth and salaries diminished, the cost of private school became prohibitive and there was a shift to public schools. Certain of the "wealthier" parents also began to prefer the "fancier" private schools with high schools with excellent national reputations; the paranoia about getting into top colleges takes precedence over ethnic/religious identity. We need wealthy Conservative Jews to endow Jewish Day Schools with several billion -- so educational programming can compete with the top private schools and costs can be 1/2 to 2/3 of those other private schools.

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Permalink Reply by Janet R. Perlmutter/Schwartz on August 31, 2008 at 2:06am

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Yes, I went to visit the shul 14 months ago. (I visited P.S.164 at the same time.) It is mostly a daycare center now -- not for Jews, though. The building is totally run down EXCEPT for the two sanctuaries. Did you see the Junior Congregation room, as well as the main sanctuary? They are maintained immaculately, probably out of respect. Thank goodness for some things!

Where are the photos of the rabbi/teachers/principal hanging? I didn' see those! I did go downstairs to the ballroom, though. I became really emotional when I saw that the carpet was the same one that I remembered from the 1970's. It's wild! The sukkah, however, has been removed. I was heart-broken to see it dismantled. I have the best memories of Sukkot, in that sukkah. It's because of that sukkah that I now have my own, at holiday time.

How awful about the torah scrolls!!! Do they know who stole them? HOW did the thieves evade security when the sanctuary doors are always locked? More importantly, WHY would they steal torah scrolls? (I know they're very costly. Must've been an inside job. ) And how did they conduct a service without a torah?

As for Mitch's comment, and your response to it...we had a speaker at my shul, last year, who predicted that the conservative movement will die out within 20 years. Frightening! Thank G-d for the Orthodox, then. If not for them, we'd cease to exist!

Ahhhh...White Castle. I miss those yummy square burgers! Haven't had one since I moved away, at age 11. Too late, now. Oh the unfairnesses of keeping kosher! I miss a good veal parmegiana from Mama Lucy's, too!

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Permalink Reply by Ruben G. Perlmutter on August 31, 2008 at 3:57pm

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Did not see the Junior Congregation room, but the main sanctuary didn't seem particularly well maintained to me -- not falling apart, but dated and the gold lettering could use retouching. They're renovating the Embassy Room ballroom. Unknown who stole the Torah scrolls. Why were they stolen ? They're valuable, but the "buyers" are so few and presumably would not buy a stolen scroll. The congregation borrowed a scroll.

Whoever said the Conservative movement will die out within 20 years is being ridiculous; our generation will still be around, albeit smaller. Perhaps in 75-100 years, but not before. The JTS is still around, so is the University of Judaism; both still graduating rabbis and Jewish educators.

Perhaps we can franchise a kosher White Castle: if you can do it with Subway, you can do it with White Castle.

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Permalink Reply by Janet R. Perlmutter/Schwartz on September 1, 2008 at 3:14pm

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Yes! I just heard about the Kosher Subway. Great idea! I can't wait for White Castle to follow suit! ...And when will somebody invent a kosher veal parmigiana?!!! lol!

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Permalink Reply by Daniel Meltzer on September 26, 2008 at 4:32pm

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I went with my family to visit the old neighborhood about a year and a half ago. We took photos on the front steps of the building. But the front doors were locked. So we went to the rear entrance, which was open. The old gym now housed a Russian dance academy. I then led the way down the center aisle , walked through the double doors, and went up the center stairway to the main floor. Peeked in the sanctuary. Then I took my kids to Mr. Agronovich's old classroom. Apparently now it's used for nursery school kids. We then went downstairs to the ballroom area. Those doors were locked, but it was kind of cool to tell my kids that I had my Bar Mitzvah reception behind those closed doors in 1970.

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Permalink Reply by Mitch Pilcer on September 1, 2008 at 12:52am

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I also believe that the conservative movement will survive beyond the next 20 years. They'll circle their wagons, consolidate in a few large cities and persist another generation or two. But they will remain without any influence and importance in the American Jewish scene and be blown away by the dynamics of the Orthodox. I'm sure if Rabbi Kirshblum and other leaders of the movement had any idea where it was heading years ago they wouldn't have made all the concessions that led to the movements irreverence.
As far as the missing Tora scrolls. We were always taught to relate to them as living things. Which makes me wonder if they didn't get a good look at what was going on around them every Shabbat when they opened the ark, and just made a collective decision to walk off on their own.

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Permalink Reply by Ruben G. Perlmutter on September 1, 2008 at 12:50pm

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I don't perceive the dynamism within Orthodox Judaism that you perceive. Except for the Lubavitch, the Orthodox movement tends to be exclusive, not inclusive; there is little effort at outreach. What there is, though, is a vibrancy that will allow the Orthodox core to survive: the Orthodox live and breathe Judaism (although sometimes, as with the current Rubashkin's/Aaron's controversy, the practice of outward Judaism is more important than the ethical core -- and it is that hypocrisy that has always turned me away from any Orthodoxy, religious or political) and they are fruitful and multiply.

The fundamental problem with Conservative and Reform Judaism are ignorance and lack of commitment: Conservative and Reform Jews do not really know what being a Jew means -- and there is insufficient commitment to learn. This stems from uneducated parents and uneducated children -- and parents more interested in having their children assimilate, be happy doing sports, etc. than in learning what Judaism is. The afternoon Talmud Torah and Sunday schools teach lots of fluff, but not core concepts. Admittedly, it's difficult to teach the young the intellectual core of Judaism and, by the time the children are old enough, after their Bnei Mitzvot, there is no commitment to learn more: there's secular school homework and activities -- and other activities for the parents. too. Why go to synagogue on Saturday when you can go shopping? or to the movies? or play tennis? or simply rest after a brutal work week? Why go to Hebrew High School when one's friends don't?

And that's the core of the problem: it's difficult to be a Jew in a country where one's Judaism is not under attack. It takes commitment (or non-acceptance) to be different -- and most people don't want to struggle to be different. They prefer the easy path, and being a Jew in America is not the easy path (whereas 2-3 generations ago in the US, it was the only path).

I don't know whether the compromises made by Rabbi Kirshblum and other Conservative leaders had anything to do with this. Kirshblum, in fact, wanted to divide the Conservative movement in the 1970's because he didn't believe that women should be on the pulpit -- but I think the decision to do so allowed Conservative Judaism to benefit from an influx of Jewishly educated women who have added some vibrancy to the movement and another generation or two of life.

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Permalink Reply by Janet R. Perlmutter/Schwartz on September 1, 2008 at 2:38pm

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I agree with all the points you've made.

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Permalink Reply by Janet R. Perlmutter/Schwartz on September 1, 2008 at 2:36pm

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LOL!!! Love that torah-on-the-run theory!

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